Cranix @ 2008-02-08 00:20:59
Ok... so the word xxxxy got turned to xxxxy... that just makes that look terrible...
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-11 06:53:23
Cranix your words make more sense now that I re-read this. After our "deep" convo I know what you're talking about.
There aren't many people like you~I particularly admire the way you know who you are and what you believe in, no matter what the outside world thinks. You make it so simple though. You know where you are. You know where you want to go and you know how to get there. That is amazing! Share the secret to true happiness in life, please!
A true romantic at heart. I hope you continue your journey and wish you luck.
Cranix @ 2008-02-13 00:36:21
THANS PWNZ! Yeah, keep things black and white. Saves your mind in the long run, and helps people know who you ya really are :D
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-13 09:14:11
No such thing as black and white Cranix...sorry , can't sell me on that one. I think it's looking at all the shades of grey inbetween and understanding them that makes us who we are.
Love and life...the greatest dilemna in the world. What to do about each of them...how to handle them, separately, together...that's what it's all about.
Right about now, I don't believe in either, cause you can only try so hard...to the point where you can't try anymore. To the point where you don't have it inside you anymore, you don't have the strength. After you realize this, you sorta give up. You don't care anymore. And with that comes such a sense of tranquility(in a sick sorta way). Along the way you disappoint and hurt not only yourself but also those that you love the most. That's the saddest part of it all. Who knows, maybe tomorrow will be a better day. One can only hope.
Cranix @ 2008-02-13 09:47:55
:( Pwnzer that's just such a bleak outlook on things! I do hope you start having a better day soon. And I'll always believe in black and white. Just who I am. It's either one thing or it's not. Anything else is just an excuse with reason behind it.
And in both love and life, you gotta take em both. You can't reject the love you have without those emotions getting to you. And we'll never escape life. Kind of take it all the same as it comes from a quote I've been debating about using in my sig-
"Sometimes you live by the knife. You cut something off that's incomplete and say, 'now it is complete' because it ends here."
Love and life are both feasable, but let niether rule you, or you will be incomplete forever. Never making an end to things, or letting them be finished, or even possibly always wanting more leaves it unfished indeed. Things must end. How do you think about the end of life and love without thinking about death you may ask? That's a personal question that can only be complete to each individual. Maybe pwnzer, you just need a knife. (figuratively speaking)
Raven @ 2008-02-13 10:15:58
I've always looked on things in "black and white".
For me there are no shades of grey. Things are either right or wrong there's no in between.
Love is like that. You either love someone or you don't. You can't sorta love someone or love them on a part time basis.
I know all about your "don't care any more" thinking Nat but, that's where "black and white" thinking wins out in the end. Also sometimes if you don't "give up" you end up hurting more than just yourself anyway ;)
Why live out life in eternal misery. Grab the chance and if it doesn't work then (black and white thinking) drop it and look for another chance.
It's easy in a sadistic sort of way ;)
Rob
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-13 10:42:25
Omg what is it with the "Black and white" way of looking at love and life???? NOTHING is EVER "Black and white".
There is so much inbetween that can prevent the "black and white" thing. So much experience, so much disppointment, so much hurt, so much fear. Everything we do is dictated by experience. See I once thought things were "black or white" but they aren't. Think about how life would be if everything was "black and white". It would be perfect right? ;) Well it isn't. And it's what we do and how we handle things that constitutes whether or how we survive or not.
Cranix @ 2008-02-13 10:44:47
And just to ask. why is the word s-p-i-c-y being limited to just the y? You guys have a filter on the languag in bloggz as well eh? Cant say I blame you. Just made things look worse than what I'd really said... :/
And yeah, I've watched pwnz game, she's got guts. We all just gotta believe sometimes :D! WE BELIEVE IN YOU PWNZER!
dwinx @ 2008-02-13 11:50:17
My wife and I almost never argue. We argue about this idea of black and white.
There are not absolute truths in the world. Even our "universal" ideals are mostly shaped by the culture around you and therefore something that is absolutely true to you might ring hollow for someone in China.
There are not absolute truths because every interaction you have with people is shaped entirely by the sum of your two life experiences. Furthermore, you could have approximately the same interaction with the same person and get different results based on their mood, the sun, whatever.
I have this "ideal" version of myself that I am actively trying to let go of because it includes many vague ideals and I can never satisfy them. Therefore, you deal in the gray and make the best of what you can.
Marriages are not so clean cut. Of course you should love your spouse unrelentingly. But, say your spouse has an expensive hobby and so you work long hours to accomodate that. In doing so, your spouse feels alone. Here, everyone is trying to do right, but it comes out wrong. Certainly, communication can fix a lot of problems before they spiral out of control, but keep in mind that love and life do not occur in a vacuum.
Spicy.
Cranix @ 2008-02-13 16:05:58
Spicy indeed :D
I treat life the same as Spawpoint does with hackers. There is a set of rules to be followed. Things must have proof and basis or are just thrown out. Sure there is "grey" but when you make a choice on the matter, it's not longer undecided and is not something defined. It's not making the decision that leaves a grey area.
dwinx @ 2008-02-13 16:34:37
I still think you are oversimplifying things. For example, in my job, we quote equipment for construction projects. We have a dozen or so products that appear on most projects and because we quote so many jobs, we invariably forget items that we could have included in our package. When all is said and done and that item was forgotten by both us and the contractor, whose responsibility is it?
Do I give it to the contractor because he assumed I would get it? Does the contractor eat it because it is his job to review the bids? Does the owner pay for it because the bids did not include this equipment in the first place? In my business, we have come to each of these conclusions depending on the circumstances. We have to evaluate each situation individually because there is a lot of gray area.
Cranix @ 2008-02-14 00:05:09
In all honesty. Seems to me the only end you have to worry about is your own and your business is rather forgiving. In my line of work, if you personally were responsible for getting that out, that's your job. You take care of getting it where it needs to go, if it didnt get there, fix it. Dancing around who's fault it is seems silly to me. You know what you were responsible for doing in that case. Just the way it looks.
Raven @ 2008-02-14 07:01:28
I work in the construction industry.
Our tenders are itemised and the specification is submitted with our job quotes.
If it's not on the specification and/or our order acknowledgement it's not going. If the guy wants it he better ask for it. If he doesn't he won't get it.
If he still wants it he'll pay for it. There's no query then ;)
Simple "black and White" thinking :P
Sorry Nat.......
LOL
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-14 07:28:34
Grrrrrrr Rob! :p
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-14 07:34:42
Ok let's work on this "theory" of blacak and white". I really am trying to understand it. Let's stick to love.
Black and white: I either love "A" or don't. Correct?
Grey (my theory ;) ): I know I love "A", but what am I able to do about it. See what I mean? Experience always constitutes what you do about it...And please don't say...what you do about it is a spur of the moment decision. Nah hah...no go....sorry!
Cranix @ 2008-02-14 12:34:34
I would definitely say it's something you know or you dont. If you are unsure if you do or not, then you dont. Thats the black and white. You can have feelings, that doesnt make it grey, that just makes it not love.
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-14 12:52:32
Oh FORGET IT!!!!!
I'm more confused now that ever before!!! lol THANKS ALOT! =/
Cranix @ 2008-02-14 15:02:20
Welcome to love :D!
Raven @ 2008-02-15 07:41:44
Nat,
We've had that discussion in great detail.
you'll KNOW when its "true" love and when it's not.
Trust me ;)
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-15 10:57:29
Black and White...I know.
You're right. I give up.
IRONMAN @ 2008-02-15 22:09:44
Life is not black or white.
Love is not black or white.
Life and love is all the color of the rainbow
Some times you need to do the wrong thing "black"
to make things right "white"
Dont think things you do in life as black or white.
Just doit and hop is the right thing that your doing.
Thats all you can do.
Life is to shor :( ENJOY IT.
Cranix @ 2008-02-16 01:09:01
Dude, not sure if you were really paying attention to the meaning's of the words we were using :/... Black and white, as either clearly this or clearly that. Not right or wrong, just clearly defined or set to a definitive. I truly believe you live confused for the most part with lots of grey area. You can't enjoy being confused... And Ironman, dont hope what you're doing is right bro, know it's right, or you could potentially live with doubt. Never live with doubt.
IRONMAN @ 2008-02-16 05:47:49
Im sorry my kid was talking to me While I was reading, Your telling me not to live with doubt? Let me Quote what you typed
not sure if you were really paying attention to the meaning's of the words we were using
NOT SURE that sound like Doubt?
Thx any ways back to my grey confused life.
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-16 08:20:58
"Black and White" def makes things easier...either you do or you don't. So by ignoring the "grey" you make things very basic and simple. How long do you ignore the "grey" for? It is there and it doesn't go away. Must take an awfully strong person to not allow it to interfere with his/her life. Any particular pointers on putting the "grey" on hold or on the backburner?
Raven @ 2008-02-16 11:48:53
Yes be Me :)
IRONMAN @ 2008-02-16 12:23:47
It happens and does what it wants to despite your fancy plans. Life changes colours with every passing moment. The rosy shades of childhood soon give way to the realities of the world.
Do you remember when you thought you were going to be a pirate when you grew up? Everyone you told just smiled and patted you on your head. They even encouraged it with an eye patch and a pair of grandpa's barn boots.
Your earliest memories are tainted with some of the biggest lies known to mankind. Every year until almost your thirteenth birthday you await the arrival of a fat, old man, dressed in red velvet and white fluff. And he travelled by way of flying deer all the way from the south- pole, guided only by the glowing nose of his favourite deer, to deliver presents to you by jumping down a chimney. How magical. And what if you don't have a chimney, you asked? They told you that by way of secret Christmas magic, one formed. Out of the clear blue. And if you continued to ask questions, they told you that Santa would know you didn't believe in him, and would leave lumps of coal instead of presents.
Then you find out that Santa isn't real, and neither are pirates. The tooth fairy is a lie and the Easter bunny was just for fun. Deer can't fly and you can get grounded for two weeks for jumping down the chimney, one for jumping and the other for being on the roof. Somehow you make it through and grow up. You make big plans and follow your dreams. No matter the old lady spinning in the the moon was never a reality, it was just a way to mask the craters. Life's truths and realities soon become clearer as sweat gives way to happy go lucky years of our life.
The next thing you know you're carrying your bachelor's degree in your back pocket so the grease from the burgers you're slinging doesn't stain it. And then one day, you meet the love of your life, and everything changes. You see that nothing stays the same forever and life is full of surprises. You see that even the best made plans can go awry. You grab your patch and grandpa's boots and carry on. Life's roller coaster ride gains speed on a downhill journey speed. You soon have kids and a full time job with only sneak outs available being stolen by parent's day meetings or taking your little angel to a dentist.
And my friend that's the color GREY of your life
From what I know of NAT, Not just grey but she's all the color or the raibow.
Cranix @ 2008-02-16 12:29:15
Nah you've switched the idea to a different perspective pwnz. It's not that the grey is ignored, it's that you make up your mind about the grey. I guess you could sort of put it into a system of thinking. When something/one comes a long that you dont fully understand or accept it could be considered "grey". Spend some time figuring out where this thing fits in your life. Not deciding where it goes leaves it grey. But putting it somewhere that it belongs makes it a single part of your life (either this or that, black and white).
However, by ignoring the grey you keep more of it around. Leaving more things undone and less things that you've actually figured where it belongs in your life.
-side note
Ironman, for someone so critical and with good reasoning skills you should be able to see through most of this game we call life. I would bet your life isn't as grey as you keep it bro.
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-16 13:08:37
My head hurts =/ and along with it my heart..
Cranix @ 2008-02-16 13:11:39
I will honestly say man, I like your way of thinking. I just read your new post IRONMAN, and just wanted to add a few things. One is that we're not really looking at this little picture we're painting from anywhere of the same perspective. Raven and I are referring to going through life and making up your mind. You are talking about how life changes. But it's when life changes, things move and adjust that you have to put down the hard choices and call it good or not. That's the black and white I refer to. You know what you're responsible for, make decisions accordingly. Not making those decisions creates grey.
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-16 13:26:16
Omg I get it now Cranix... That last post you made actually made a lot of sense.
I am the almighty creator of Grey! It really is very simple. Well, not all the time but most of the time. Good or bad...I def. know this about myself. So now that I know this about myself I can start to look and see what things need to be dealt with and sorted.
Raven @ 2008-02-17 06:51:02
Nat as I said to you before we all have "decisions" to make in life. We'll call this the "grey matter". However when you make the decision it's no longer "grey" but either black or white.
Now I and probably Cranix hqave gone through life so far quickly assessing grey into "black or white". YOU however, spend so much time thinking about it that your grey keeps building up and up thus threatening to overwhelm your black and white ;)
Spend some time catagorizing the grey into its 2 primary colours and you'll find your life so much easier to handle.
Now don't get me wrong we CAN and DO sometimes mis-catagorize "grey" buthe he we're not perfect.
Raven @ 2008-02-17 06:52:27
Nice blog Cranix and the debate is coming along real nice :)
Cranix @ 2008-02-17 10:08:39
Lol, who'd have thought this would come out of it... I do find it interesting that people really dont like the idea of black and white though. You just have to make up your mind. I like knowing that I know what I do. Instead of being confused on what I think I might know.
dwinx @ 2008-02-18 09:01:30
Reading this thread further helped clarify your point for me. I definately do not think right and wrong can be black and white, but apparently that is not your point. I think you guys are saying make a choice that is right for you and be done with it.
I think most guys do this and it keeps us sane. I think many women make a choice and then play the what if game and drive themselves (and occasionally their men) batty.
teh-pwnzer @ 2008-02-18 15:24:21
Lol Dwinx...we don't do it on purpose....honest!
dwinx @ 2008-02-18 16:20:55
That's what is nice about being married. Eventually you get to the point you can call bs on your spouse without getting in trouble. I can say "sweetie, just make up your mind and live with it" and I generally survive the encounter (knock on wood). She can torture herself with things down to "what should I wear?" Whereas I come out and she says "you're wearing THAT?!" and I can say "Yup."
This was even more pronounced when she was job hunting and agonizing over every options. Most guys will say I'll take job x and if it sucks, well then we'll take it from there.
Take it from master yoda...do, or do not...there is no try.
Cranix @ 2008-02-18 23:26:25
Fo sheez Dwinx :D. Women seem to fret far more than men do, not to say we dont, we just do it less. Just gotta keep up with what's coming at ya, roll with the punches ;D!
